That's a great animation. I would say that from the perspective from inside the time chain, there appears to be simutinaity between the ordering and that which is ordered. But self causation or mutual causation *is* circular causation. *Within* time, yes, there is no meaningul separability. But that's exactly the perspective Bitcoin gives us a chance to transcend. We stand above the chain. That models our rationship to what stands above time. ("Above" being a linguistic convenience for causal orthogonality.) Sure, I'm up for a call. My schedule in is relatively flexible, so just propose times here or DM and I'm game.

“How could logic exist without a system?” While we cannot know the “system” the geneisis is, we can know the our relation to the source/genesis. Whether it’s doing, knowing, or being, the relation to gensis, the source, creation, whatever you want to call it, remains absolute. something beyond, some pure act, fully actualized, unmoved mover, some Absolute, God, Logos, Word. reality is inteligible, full of structure and order, logos, because whatever the source of this reality is inteligible, structured snd ordered. that’s the big world behind our small human world of formal systems. if bitcoin explains the big world, then that is in contradiction with the above relation, and why i recognize bitcoin as another small system man made. I do enjoy these back and forths, and agree that real dialog is better. I am rather stretched thin on time, but i would like to make the effort to make it happen 👍

I can totally understand your point and limited time. What I am saying is Bitcoin is both Big World and Small World. It’s all peer to peer electronic cash on both sides of the boundary 😉 The paper, while dense, is how you approach the conclusion. We’ll try to schedule a shared time to hash it out that works with you!

So would a universe inside of a universe invalidate itself? Or a ledger inside of a ledger? A computer inside of a computer? Genesis inside of Genesis? Nested systems do not invalidate the boundary that instantiated them; they reveal the rule-set that makes such nesting possible. What else does a computer do except execute logic across time? What other structure can you demonstrably point to that that preserves truth through time besides Bitcoin that we can both objectively agree upon? There is no second best logic to temporal non-contradiction. Bitcoin instantiated inside of Bitcoin is not an invalidation of Bitcoin, it’s matter of understanding the rules, logic and perspective of the temporal boundary. Bitcoin produces lasting truth and logic, but has a continually transforming utxo set. What would Bitcoin inside of Bitcoin looking like Conceptually, this would resemble UTXOs time-locked eternally in the father chain—state preserved under the outer rule-set while a new ordered history unfolds within a new temporal order.

“So if reality preserves truth, how?” This question is asking for a small world answer to a big world question. big world answers are why? questions and we have answers “But that just names the thing, it doesn’t explain the mechanism.” exactly, to explain the mechanics is to create a small world. all we can do is name the thing, acknowledge the necessary relation. You are asking me to make a small world out of the big world. And I’m saying, that’s not possible, and not even a bad thing. that ls the actual defining limitation boundary of our humanity i respect the physics, it answers how questions but philosophy has primacy to physics, and answers the why questions. if bitcoin answers the how, it says nothing about the why. I agree with you that bitcoin is a small world formal system which produces truth equal to that of reality itself. but to say bitcoin is therefor the mechanism by which reality itself produces truth does not follow at all. as a syllogism: 1) that which produces the big world truth is beyond the human mode of being 2) bitcoin is not beyond the human mode of being. 3) MT therefore bitcoin is not that which produces the big world truth

"So if reality preserves truth, how?" This is not actually a coherent sentence and I think it may point to why you keep coming back to circularity. Reality IS Truth. Truth is immutable. Reality does not preserve. Preserve is an action within time of maintaining order against entropy. I think you can coherently say: Bitcoin preserves order through a meta-order process of cryptography. (Cryptography is the art of securing information. In-formafion. Aka order. It is order-hardening or anti-entropic techniques.) "What executes the logic?" That's a computer term. Logic is not the output of computation but the ordering principle that makes it possible. "Executes logic" is actually word slop, though I use that shorthand too. "Executes instructions (in-structure) into which we have encoded logic by use of rational intellect." Is a more fully expanded version. "What enforces the boundary that keeps past states from becoming false? What preserves truth across time instead of letting it collapse into contradiction?" Again, that is no a coherent construct. True does not become false and false does not become true. Logic is axiomatic ground. If you don't accept logic as the foundation you fall into infinite regress. Something has to be axiomatic and it has to be this or you couldn't even ask the question so it would by definition be nonsense. Bitcoin runs on computers but its truth is not fundamentally computational either. The computers automate a game. The game is between people. We are distributed witnesses who can discern truth because we have rational intellects and the world is intelligible. We are using computers to automate the game to maintain agreement on facts and prevent anyone from cheating. It is only because our rational intellects grasp higher order that we can have a game of agreeing upon truth and goodness (value) to coordinate and align our actions toward higher levels of order against an entropic phicial world. Computers provide a way to use the physical limitations of the world to do cryptography and make it virtually impossible to cheat. This is necessary because we have free will and can choose lesser goods. God does not have this problem. His will is pure, perfect and unchanging. He IS truth. He IS logic. And that is not a mere assertion, it is a necessary logic conclusion. But our cheating problem has led to a solution that approximates the ordering principles of time and can teach us about it. This is poetic and God is good. He always makes a higher good our of our evil choices in the end. Of course. If we ask what preserves truth itself, well what preserves that, and that and that... Infinite regression and circularity are both illogical by definition. So there has to be and uncaused cause and it must be Logos. Or reality is a contradiction and then it doesn't exist