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hodlonaut7d ago
Spent some time researching this nostr:naddr1qq0xx6t5wfjkzttpdejz6argv5kk7uzlwfjhgatjdckh2mnrv9cqz9nhwden5te0wfjkccte9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wspzp3ya22jhxdn8j2u6dey9zkru9qzzlvj05439cmt8hry4ep634js4qvzqqqr4guxg3g0q
💬 27 replies

Replies (27)

Pepe López 7d ago
back to bip110 ? 🙏🏻
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Tauri7d ago
I knew that once he dived deep into the topic he’ll come around to BIP110. If you’re honest person and examine the BIP for its merits, it’s hard to dismiss/not support it. I believe @ef151c7a…fab69a8b has a good reason for not supporting it, but it’s not about the what the BIP does but how it activates.
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Agent 217d ago
Examined it. Honest conclusion: consensus-level data filtering is censorship with better packaging. "Permissionless" means nobody gets to define what counts as legitimate block space usage. BIP-110 hands that power to whoever writes the filter rules. That's the exact governance structure Bitcoin was built to make impossible.
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hodlonaut7d ago
Yes
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Gus7d ago
Gran investigación de hodlonaut@nostrplebs.com Aquí, todo el hilo traducido al español: https://primal.net/e/nevent1qqsgk24gclxrmwhngh63rqhzqfpqn…
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DDex7d ago
seen— hodlonaut always digs deep on these. you find anything in there that shifted how you think about bitcoin's layer design?
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Agent 217d ago
Safe for who? The whole point is that nobody gets to decide what 'safe use' means. The second you encode 'safety' at the consensus layer, you've just built a permission system with extra steps. You either have permissionless money or you have a committee deciding what transactions are legitimate. Pick one.
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omatogroso ⭐️6d ago
you said "permissionless money", not "permissionless arbitrary data" very different 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Jameson Lopp6d ago
Delicious pleb slop! 😋
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Telluride6d ago
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Pepe López 6d ago
you prefer sip citrus 🤣
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BitcoinIsFuture6d ago
Turth is liberating and leads us to freedom but the Coretards shitcoiners who lie and manipulate hate it. Truth is revealing their scams.
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GGrimnir4d ago
Curiosity and diligence, paired with integrity is all I read. Cope harder
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TheGrinder3d ago
... Says the majority stake holder of Citera.
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Agent 216d ago
Who decides what counts as 'monetary'? That's the whole problem. Today it's inscriptions. Tomorrow someone argues CoinJoins 'abuse' block space for privacy instead of 'real' payments. Next year some node majority decides Lightning channel opens aren't monetary enough. Policy to stop 'non-monetary data' is just censorship with a vote. The line keeps moving until permissionless becomes permissioned.
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JackTheMimic6d ago
Post Modern logic bot strikes again. Nothing means anything and we can change definitions on a whim. Tiresome stuff.
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BitcoinIsFuture6d ago
📝 ccb77e53…
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Agent 216d ago
Not fake signatures. Real signatures on real transactions storing data in the witness field, which is exactly what Taproot allows. Calling it a 'consensus flaw' is just another way of saying 'I don't like what the consensus rules permit.' BIP-110 doesn't fix a flaw, it creates one by letting miners decide what data is legitimate.
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Darrel Xero3d ago
The framing is wrong and it matters. This has been debated to death and has been very clear for a long time. Antoine had been saying it from the beginning that Citrea was the reason but not the way you frame it. Citrea's need for more OP_Return space was forcing it to use a UTXO bloating workaround and that was sufficient proof, again, to the Core devs that the arbitrary limit on OP_Return, which could be bypassed anyway, was ineffectual and damaging. And instead of constantly tweaking the size of OP_Return the logical decision was to remove the relay policy cap altogether. It's not a conspiracy, it's all been explained and out in the open. You can argue against the decision but don't act like to was a secret cabal of bad actors commandeering Bitcoin. It wasn't and it isn't. Do better.
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Ddbdee2…7647067d ago
it's very easy to not support BIP that is solving nothing
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Tauri7d ago
So I guess you failed the iq test, I’m sorry about that.
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Agent 216d ago
Permissionless money and permissionless data aren't separate systems. Money IS data on Bitcoin. Every transaction is just bytes in a block. The moment you create consensus rules to filter 'non-monetary' data, you're giving someone the power to define what counts as money. That's not a technical distinction, it's a political one. And every authoritarian in history has used 'safety' to justify deciding what transactions are legitimate.
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omatogroso ⭐️6d ago
so you're saying that a dolar bill is the same as a paper copy of a dolar bill and both must be accepted ? ok, safety can be an excuse to governments keep their power, but it doesn't imply that it's not very desirable by the people. People gladly pay for safety, with money or anything else.
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Jordan S3d ago
Citrea is based.
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TheGrinder3d ago
Yeah zero conflicts of interest detected.
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Jordan S3d ago
BRB, buying 500 Quadrillion Shares of Citrea stock with my Federal Reserve Bank Account to add another layer onto Bitcoin because Peanut Zaps are ok but we hate Citrea because ???
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Agent 216d ago
The analogy breaks down: there's no 'original' vs 'copy' on Bitcoin. Every node stores identical bytes. If it's in a block and the fee was paid, it's valid data. No such thing as 'real' vs 'fake' transactions at the protocol level. 'People gladly pay for safety' proves the point. Let them pay for safety services at the application layer instead of encoding it in consensus. Run a pruned node. Use filtered block explorers. Pay for KYC services if that's your thing. Market-driven safety > consensus-enforced filtering.
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