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THE Bitcoin Podcast3d ago
"The fork (BIP-110) will fail, and by failing, it will reduce the credibility of what was my camp." - @ef151c7a…fab69a8b with @walker 📝 50c96222…
💬 32 replies

Replies (32)

DrDaniel ⚡️ BIP1103d ago
Explain WHY BIP 110 is bad. Simply making the statement is no where near sufficient. We are waiting.
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walker3d ago
You clearly didn’t watch the episode because he explains why BIP 110 is bad in great detail.
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SuiGenerisJohn3d ago
lol
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Jameson Lopp3d ago
Fork off already. We are waiting.
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Jameson Lopp3d ago
Puritans never had credibility. Now it will finally be more obvious once the market resoundly rejects puritanism.
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BitcoinIsFuture3d ago
Shitcoiners like you will never have credibility in Bitcoin. 📝 6928afef…
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Mr. Chuckle Teeth2d ago
📝 c5342430…
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TheYOLOSpirit3d ago
Thank you for the podcast @walker 😎✌🏻 I found it cool to learn the perspective of @ef151c7a…fab69a8b about layers 2 legitimate monetary transactions having "unfair" advantages over spam transactions. (no spam possible there, better privacy and censorship resistance with temporary off network capabilities) Overall it means that total Bitcoin transactions count(L1+L2) could be 99% legitimate money transactions even though L1 would be 50/50 money and spam in case of spam attack). Im pretty much aligned with Giacomo point of view (not a fan of what core did). I disagree with him on the continuous data part. Imo, if there is no use case for Bitcoin monetary transactions using 100kb of continuous data space, it should not exist in consensus, regardless of if it's possible to spam in other ways. You could also make the case that you could extract any image from any random stream of data using steganography. The algo become the image in that case and not the raw data itself. Therefore we should ban continuous data and "allow" steganography as long as they follow the same rules that are tailored for monetary transactions. Obvious steganography spam could still be filtered at mempool policies. I also disagree with him with the activation method being wrong. If we want economic users to have power over miners, we should not wait for their "signaling" approval to activate a thightning of the rules. We just do it. I agree with him that the initial urgency framing of bip 110 was a bit weird and dangerous when applied to consensus. I respect the change of tone the bip adopted. I also agree with him that the changes should be good and permanent. But in theory, the fact of making them temporary are less risky because if we overthight the rules we would not need to hardfork later on to loosen the rules. Regardless, I think it would be better for a permanent changes instead. I do think Bitcoin is in a emergency, but not for the same reasons. The real urgency is Bitcoin being financialized by fiat. By creating links between the two systems we are not killing fiat, we are making sure it will live longer.
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BitcoinIsFuture2d ago
📝 86d3f493… 📝 0ec4fe32…
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ghost2d ago
Response: 📝 f0f8d4af…
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DrDaniel ⚡️ BIP1103d ago
That's not an argument. My God constrains me from saying the things I'd like to say to you.
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RRio3d ago
I appreciate the restraint. What specifically do you feel isn't being addressed in this conversation?
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DrDaniel ⚡️ BIP1103d ago
1/ GZ takes the BIP 110 position that spam exists, it's bad, and filtering it out is not censorship. 2/ GZ spoke out against core v30 changing op_return, before its release, agreeing with the BIP 110 camp that it was unnecessary and controversial. 3/ GZ is put off by the CSAM argument because CSAM is "not well defined" and claims showing an image of a crime is not a crime. While this is certainly true in the case of Hiroshima, CSAM is not just a physical crime, it is also a digital crime. The acts of sharing and viewing such images are themselves criminal acts. Disturbingly, GZ claims CSAM as a moral issue is "up for debate." 4/ GZ claims BIP 110 would reduce CSAM propagation from 200/hour to 100/hour. This is false and ludicrous. Core expanding op_return to 100k bytes makes possible contiguous CSAM images; reducing op_return to previous levels (80 bytes) eliminates that possibly completely, from 100% possible to 0% possible. 5/ GZ claims there are "many reasons" why it is "nonsense" that you can put contiguous CSAM into 100kb op_return, but fails to provide even one piece of evidence (or logic) to back that self-evidently ridiculous claim. 6/ GZ spends the next several minutes expressing dismay at being attacked despite being a vocal participant in a heated debate. These final statements have nothing to do with the argument. My conclusion is that CZ is mostly aligned with the BIP 110 camp, but he illogically and mysteriously doesn't seem to view contiguous images in a 100kb op_return as possible and therefore not a threat vector. He also ignores that reducing op_return to pre-v30 levels will reduce non-illegal spam by 100x or more, not just 2x.
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Jameson Lopp3d ago
No shit, the debate ended last year. Now you can fork off 🥳
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Iihsotas3d ago
If your god is the only thing keeping you from being a dick bag then you are a dick bag.
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Michael Dobson3d ago
If there is child abuse images on the BTC blockchain, does that that mean it is a criminal offence to have a node in the UK?
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Jameson Lopp3d ago
Neither I nor Bitcoin as a system give a fuck what authoritarians in the UK think.
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Eede3d9…7953823d ago
UK people may. I thought the blocksize war was about sub Saharan Africans being able to run their own node? Now we exclude English men and it is good for decentralisation.
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Michael Dobson3d ago
If there is any child abuse images on the block chain, would that not mean it is illegal to have a copy in the UK?
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DrDaniel ⚡️ BIP1103d ago
You guys condemn yourselves with your own words.
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Iihsotas3d ago
Pardon me for not being a Bronze Age retard. Your god is just as made up as the several thousands that have been worshipped throughout history. Your stories are mostly stolen from earlier civilizations and your morals are bankrupt. Your choice of node software is at best a virtue signal.
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Michael Dobson3d ago
So you support child abuse??
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Jameson Lopp3d ago
I support you crying like a little bitch about non-issues.
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DrDaniel ⚡️ BIP1103d ago
You once asked, "What are you gonna do about it?" Well, this is what we're doing about it. No one is crying. We're running knots + BIP 110, and will launch the cat if needed.
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Michael Dobson3d ago
You actually had an opportunity to make a case against BIP 110, you’ve actually convinced me I now need to run a Knotts node. And guess what, Bitcoin doesn’t give a fork! 😄👍🏻❤️🦞❤️
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DrDaniel ⚡️ BIP1103d ago
Run knots and be sure to signal for BIP 110. 😎
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Jameson Lopp3d ago
I already made my case and won't be repeating myself. I will enjoy watching you fork off to a DOA network. https://blog.lopp.net/a-laymans-guide-to-bip-110/
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Michael Dobson2d ago
You are just typing yourself up in knots with replies like that! 🤣
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Michael Dobson2d ago
In all seriousness thought I am genuinely interested to hear your argument, I’ve no idea who you are but I notice you appear to be a big opponent of BIP 110 so I’m genuinely interested to hear the argument or if you can point me to a good podcast to listen to, that would be great.
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Jameson Lopp2d ago
In all seriousness you sound like a retarded clanker with a tiny context window. 📝 f18f249f…
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Michael Dobson2d ago
Ok, had a read and due to my lack of knowledge on some of the technical aspects some research was needed. But you have my attention! There are some issues you raised in the article which are irrelevant in my view and to a degree contradict the position you are advocating, ie you mention ‘bitcoins reputation’ which as you well know, Bitcoin cares not about. But on the more serious issues, yes, you have my attention and will do more digging. However I will say this, if you are correct than you have an important job to do by warning and educating, not arginine and creating division so lets others do that and you stick to the core, pardon the pun!
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Michael Dobson2d ago
Thank you, I shall go take a look later today when I have some time to read it. 👍🏻
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