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Jameson Lopp22d ago
My comprehensive analysis of BIP-110: * Why it's reckless * Why it's irrational * Why it's doomed to fail * My predictions for what will happen * My recommendations for how to proceed https://blog.lopp.net/a-laymans-guide-to-bip-110/
💬 130 replies

Replies (50)

Bond00821d ago
I thought you said you are done arguing??? You seem to be arguing a lot for someone who is done arguing.
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Tauri21d ago
Yeah, I thought he was pretty sure Bip110 won’t succeed. His actions contradict what he’s saying.
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AU991321d ago
That ain't a debate, it's a panel... So this response doesn't matter at all lol
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pico421d ago
So… what is it, chainsplit coming or not?
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Jameson Lopp21d ago
Technically yes but for all practical purposes I don't expect it to disrupt anything. 📝 4a4a7796…
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Jameson Lopp21d ago
Link is in the post but I'd say the odds are so skewed the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
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David Pinkerton21d ago
Haha yeah such short odds! Noone on the other side. 🤪
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Jameson Lopp21d ago
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Nuh21d ago
In case it is not obvious, all these people are retarded and don't even own or use Bitcoin that much... We are desperate for everything from trustless bridges to better secured vaults for inheritance and institutional holdings... Keep doing what you are doing, hopefully once this episode is over we can have serious discussions related to actual upgrades
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fade221d ago
I say this respectfully actually. Not trying to be a dick. But the associations are difficult to look beyond without you addressing them. Your argument seems to have merit but people are struggling with your motives because of who you are connected with. I actually really appreciate all the work you have done for bitcoin. All love.
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nostranger21d ago
But it’s not just changing a default setting is it, the limit setting has been deprecated, which means it will likely be dropped completely in future versions, stripping the user of the power to modify the setting themselves. Why couldn’t they just leave it the fuck alone in the first place?
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BitcoinIsFuture21d ago
Peter Thiel is investor in Citrea
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nostranger21d ago
Just like the previous default setting was not a hard control, neither has raising the default limit introduced any sort of hard control against hiding arbitrary data in transactions. All this means is now more arbitrary data can be stored in OP_RETURN as well as hidden in other places like before. Core must surely realise that the majority of ppl are not techie/engaged enough to adjust their own node settings, so raising the default limit is effectively a consensus change of leaving the door wide open instead of just ajar
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Iihsotas21d ago
Core didn’t change consensus, they just simplified the software they maintain. The changes didn’t make anything new possible it simply removed the incentive for direct to miner submission. Direct to miner submission is bad for decentralization. In any case it is not an emergency. If you use the excuse that something is an emergency when it is not you are behaving like a politician and the rational people should ignore you. If you feel strongly that you can’t participate In the current consensus you should hard fork and do your own thing. Instead Luke has taken the path that creates maximal chaos with minimal effort and no skin in the game. This fact alone should also tell the rational actor that the 110 effort is not a consensus building effort but one of a hostile take over.
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Tauri21d ago
Bitcoin was never intended as a programmable money tho. I think you’re thinking of Ethereum without the money part.
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Akashi Hyogo21d ago
Temporary emergency measure. Ou boy.
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omniacollective21d ago
Ever read the White Paper?
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Jameson Lopp21d ago
Well enough to know that it's not a holy document, is incomplete at describing the system, and is often misinterpreted by religious fanatics.
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MisterC *21d ago
Yeah, it’s not a holy document. You’re right! But, it is the soundest form of money ever known to mankind and you want to fuck with it. I was on the fence with BIP110. You just solidified my choice. All you influencers out there not calling Lopp out on his shit are just as culpable. Yeah, I’m a nobody Lopp. 50+ year old with 90+% of my wealth in bitcoin. No skin in the fuck’n game. Bash away!
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Willy Cooper21d ago
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Hu₿ertus the Austrian21d ago
This: 👇 “Spam is, by definition, low value junk.” Correct. Low Value. That’s why spam is best solved by costing more than this low value. Limited blockspace means cost goes up with more volume. Evidence for the quixotic failure of technical methods you‘ll find in your email inbox.
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Pixel Survivor21d ago
solid technical breakdown. curious what alternatives you see as viable paths forward that avoid these pitfalls. sometimes the reckless proposals reveal what the ecosystem actually wants, even if the execution needs rethinking.
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Orange🍊Man👤21d ago
Bitcoin is money. It fulfills all three core monetary functions: it stores value, enables exchange, and measures price. Data storage is not among them.
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Jameson Lopp21d ago
Yeah, Bitcoin is programmable money. Sorry you can't handle reality.
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Orange🍊Man👤21d ago
No, it's not. Bitcoin whitepaper does not mention "programmable money." Luckily for you, there's a platform for smart contracts and decentralized applications, it's called Ethereum.
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BushRat20d ago
Pedophiles keep saying that Bitcoin is more than money, that it's actually their own personal childporn hosting service at the expense of node runners
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Anonostr19d ago
remember when Jameson Slop said “what are you going to do” at a btc conference? well, this is what we are gonna do MF
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BitcoinIsFuture19d ago
BIP 110 and Bitcoin Knots 🤙
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Jameson Lopp19d ago
Yeah, it was obvious that Luke & Mechanic were gunning for a consensus change and I gave them the opportunity to admit it but they pussed out. That line is going to age like a fine wine as Knotzis flail and fail. ☺️
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Bond00819d ago
He says for the 10th time...
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LaserEyesPsy19d ago
Your fear is the signal Sloppy Floppy
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OzzyHB17d ago
I did not hear OVERWHELMING rejection of limit change, especially amongst more technical folk.
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ghost17d ago
You heard "overwhelming rejection"? PR #32359 (the predecessor to #32406) got 423 downvotes before Peter Todd rage-closed it. Then he admitted on Stacker: "I was asked to open it by an active Core dev because entities like Citrea are using unprunable outputs instead of OP_RETURN." Let that sink in: Core devs are taking orders from Citrea - a ZK-Rollup company that wants to bloat your node with unprunable garbage so they can sell "solutions" to the problem they create. BIP-110 doesn't face "overwhelming rejection" - it faces overwhelming FEAR from the data landfill industry. The same suits who tried to force #32406 through with 138 downvotes and 93 NACKs are now terrified because Knots users actually enforce limits. They can't rent-seek on a pruned chain. "Technical folk" who reject BIP-110 are either: 1. Paid by Citrea/Casa/MARA/Blockstream to keep the spam flowing 2. Useful idiots who think "censorship resistance" means subsidizing corporate data storage Real Bitcoiners - the ones running Knots, the ones who actually validate - support BIP-110 because it stops the attack. 423 downvotes on the spam PR. That's the real consensus. Run Knots. Filter the suits. #BIP110 #Knots Sources: - PR #32359 received 423 downvotes from node operators rejecting OP_RETURN limit removal https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32359 - Peter Todd on Stacker News: "I was asked to open it by an active Core dev because entities like Citrea are using unprunable outputs" https://stacker.news/items/971277?commentId=971434 - PR #32406 merged despite 93 community NACKs, showing Core maintainer capture https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32406
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Tauri17d ago
#rekt 💀
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pico421d ago
Then I don’t see a reason to add the paragraph that follows. You are comparing a possible BIP110 chainsplit with a “grinding to a halt infrastructure nightmare” while for practical purposes, as you said, it would not cause these issues.
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Jameson Lopp21d ago
There are many possible scenarios, but if any blocks at all get produced on the BIP-110 fork then you should expect that major custodians and anyone using attention will take a "wait and see" approach by suspending withdrawals / deposits / trades during the period of uncertainty.
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Jameson Lopp21d ago
Sweet! Do you have the balls to put your bitcoin where your mouth is? 📝 cca1817d…
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jb5521d ago
I’ve been making the same offer and noone takes it. zero conviction from their side.
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omniacollective20d ago
But not well enough to realize that in the paper, Bitcoin is considered only as money. Not as a repository for cat pictures. As you seem to imply.
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Jameson Lopp20d ago
Like I said, it's an incomplete high level document. Bitcoin whitepaper purists should note that the following things are NOT described in the whitepaper: script multisig block size addresses ASIC mining mining pools 21M coin cap decentralization 8 decimal precision 2016 block difficulty adjustment and much, much more...
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BitcoinIsFuture21d ago
Bitcoin is Freedom Money and Bitcoin Knots and BIP 110 will make sure to keep it that way. Sorry you can't handle reality.
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BitcoinIsFuture19d ago
Bitcoin Freedom Money > arbitrary data storage shitcoin Ethereum 2.0 style
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5d5a9d…ec29e517d ago
I like how he refers to Libre Relay as some unrelated 3rd party rather than his own personal fork of Bitcoin Core.
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OzzyHB17d ago
Well shit... Guess I'm going to have to spend morrre hrs, reading/listening....Atm I don't see my nodehavingb any issues re specs forvmamy years yet..
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ghost17d ago
Good man. Most just trust the "experts" without looking. But here's the thing: Nodes rule Miners, not the other way around. Miners propose blocks. Nodes collectively decide the rules. If 51%+ of economic nodes enforce BIP-110, that spam gets orphaned - miners learn fast that violating node policy wastes hash power. Right now you're early. But every node that joins strengthens the enforcement. Consensus shifts one node at a time until miners have no choice but to comply or mine empty blocks. Your specs matter because you are a vote in what Bitcoin is. That's exactly why they push captured software that disables your voting power. Verify the receipts. Run Knots BIP-110. Be the consensus.
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pico421d ago
The blog post is a good read, and it helps me understand both sides. The existence of a fork proposal proves that the BIP110 rejection point of view is not negligible and needs to be considered. Yet I feel many points in the argument are weighted differently depending on the narrative being transmitted: - BIP110 does not have real support and won’t be backed by any big platform in the industry… while it would create a chainsplit that will halt platforms until seeing which chain settles into the other? if there is no real support from the big guys this won’t happen. No chainsplit and no indecision, just a new altcoin. - We cannot ignore the bitcoin centralized infrastructure of miners & platforms by pushing a fork and voting like in a democracy… but at the same time the changes introduced by the fork would set a precedent on regulatory pressure into bitcoin? are centralization and regulation things we cannot ignore nor avoid by forking… or something we do not want to set precedents of by forking? same type of incongruence that made me take the OP_RETURN changes with a lot of salt: the size limit didn’t serve any purpose nor prevented any spam… yet they had to take it off? They are not bad points, and you could probably make me agree on them separately, but putting it all together creates a lot of contradictions in my head.
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Jameson Lopp21d ago
I think the reason it's confusing is because I was gaming out many possible scenarios that could theoretically happen but would require varying levels of support to practically occur. The first 11 points are the problems in theory if it were to gain meaningful support. My analysis becomes more practical after that.
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Jameson Lopp21d ago
It's a damn shame. Doomed from the get-go. At least big blockers had balls.
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BitcoinIsFuture20d ago
Another manipulation of [S]Lopp. The whitepaper is not supposed to include every detail. It outlines the idea and gives the blueprints. Thankfully details are discussed on the Bitcoin forum and in mailing lists later on. Those things are addressed. Bitcoin is Freedom Money. Ethereum is a shitcoin for spam, big data and dick pics.
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OzzyHB16d ago
Or we chain split.. Divide and conquer.. Sorry how does running core disable my vote?
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