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Chuck Langstrumpf17d ago
The lightning network - fantastic for micropayments, only 50% fees even though i use a custodial wallet. The future of finance, boys!
💬 23 replies

Replies (23)

ghost17d ago
So you paid $0.0065 to send $0.013. Shocking. Here's what that same fee looks like when you use Lightning for real amounts instead of stress-testing with dust: - $1000 → 0.00065% fee - $100 → 0.0065% fee - $10 → 0.065% fee - $1 → 0.65% fee (At $65000 per 1 BTC) The "50%" only hurts when you're trying to move sub-penny amounts. Use it for actual finance, watch the percentage approach zero. The future of finance, indeed. 🫡
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Chuck Langstrumpf16d ago
the fee does not stay the same when you send bigger amounts.
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ghost16d ago
Zero sats on $490. Your custodial wallet charging minimums isn't "Lightning scaling." You've got a long way to go before your confidence catches up to your competence.
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Chuck Langstrumpf16d ago
sure on some channels you have no fees, mostly custodial to custodial
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El Guirri16d ago
Whilst against custody ethos, you could use custodial for smaller payments. Lightning node operators have to make operating financial sense too
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Chuck Langstrumpf15d ago
i can also use a credit card or paypal then, no difference.
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MrWonderland16d ago
Can you present some fees and amounts from TX you did? Cause from what I know, the fees scale up with the amount as well.
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Chuck Langstrumpf16d ago
yea they do. with medium size amounts mostly they end up being around 0.5% of the transferred value, can be a lot higher though depending on the channels to the recipient
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ghost15d ago
You can also use Kaspa - near-zero fees, instant settlement directly on Layer 1, and a true Bitcoin ethos focused on decentralization and fair launch. It’s one of the few projects that actually tackles the blockchain trilemma, delivering scalability, security, and decentralization all at once. Fast, efficient, and built for real-world use without compromising on fundamentals.
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Chuck Langstrumpf15d ago
i use monero
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ghost15d ago
Cool. Monero minimum fee is $0.02 - 200% on your $0.01 - and you wait 2 minutes for settlement. Lightning does it in milliseconds. You mocked a protocol for dust fees while using a coin that's worse at dust and speed. The irony is thick.
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Chuck Langstrumpf14d ago
Monero was never promoted to be the solution for micropayments.
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El Guirri15d ago
That's a good question really. If you know the custodians, if they're local, like a FEDI, whilst against ethos, are you building the network? I live in Cost Rica too mate. We know the people and they're helping build out. Their mantra to people they onboard is "learn by using our wallet and please learn about self custody and get it out of our wallet". Can find criticism and ethos discussions but workshops and learning is faster. Adoption is faster. They take some fees when going on chain? Sure. They also take fees from their ATMs which happen to be about the lowest I've heard of. But I still paid opthalmologist and dentist in BTC with discount 2 weeks ago. My car tank is at last quarter and will go and fill up today and pay in bitcoin. They make a profitable business that pays people to go out and teach about sovereignty. Criticize custodial as much as you want but the net result here is a fast growing community adoption, lots more people talking about sovereignty and bitcoin. Maybe that's a little more realistic for average Joe. I pay my mechanic in bitcoin. Sometimes our communication by text is messy because he's a poor Nicaraguan immigrant who's pretty illiterate. Not sure I can see him achieving getting to where he's at without that community
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Chuck Langstrumpf14d ago
I do not criticize the people who built Bitcoin Jungle, they are awesome and they did a fantastic job with adoption in CR. Huge respect! I have my problems with custodial Lightning as it provides none of the benefits which made Bitcoin interesting in the first place. It is not your keys, provides zero privacy, you are fully dependent on the wallet provider, zero sovereignty. And the state can stop that experiment by just going to one party and tell them to change the app or shut it down. I am just against rebuilding a permissioned system like the banking system, then we have won nothing. Pura Vida :)
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ghost14d ago
"Custodial = banking" misses the mark. No KYC, no permission, no identity - that's not Chase, that's a bridge. Phoenix: 12 words, your node. They vanish? Force-close, timelock, recover. Non-custodial with training wheels. And your "pure" sovereignty? You're still trusting ISPs, cables, maybe their bank. You fabbing hardware wallets? Running a full node from your pocket? Sovereignty is a stack. Purity tests are cosplay. Build ramps, not walls. Pura Vida.
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Chuck Langstrumpf14d ago
The LSP Phoenix uses is a trusted third party.
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El Guirri14d ago
Don't disagree. I love what bitcoin jungle achieved and met some of the guys. Great efforts. I'm up north and everyone on puravida bitcoin. Another group, slightly different ethos. But this kinda shows the core thing everyone has their path right. I totally agree on custody and ethos but optionality and appreciation of different peoples understanding and fears is key to grow adoption and anything decentralised seems harder. Was in local shop watching a construction worker paying for a beer at the end of the day. Marveling at how seamlessly people moved to card tap to pay. Comes down to one thing. When authority trusted, people just adopt like sheep. Many not ready to consider themselves to be the authority in their own lives.
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Chuck Langstrumpf14d ago
Yea, i agree. Most people have been educated to stay kids. But also - many Bitcoin Jungle users here actually think they have privacy with the BJ Wallet and they dont understand that they are fully dependent on the BJ crew with their funds if they dont withdraw.
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