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Vitor Pamplona23d ago
I have been doing Android development for so long that Linux feels extremely insecure by comparison. The idea that one App can mess around with the user data from another app by default is absolutely crazy to me. On modern Android, I can't even request access to all your photos at the same time. I need to request them ONE BY ONE.
💬 51 replies

Replies (50)

Ava23d ago
Exactly. Linux isn’t inherently more secure than other mainstream operating systems. It has to be hardened. That’s why I use Qubes.
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Flowey22d ago
Isn't it too heavy? Don't you get stressed using it?
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Flowey22d ago
Yeah, there are many distributions focuseds in privacy and security , like tails, qubes, kodachi...
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EErnst Jürger23d ago
Yes, you are in a fortress surrounded by a moat with alligators and a army of 10,000 on an island, while google is in your bedroom picking out your gimp outfit for the day.
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CitizenPleb23d ago
😂🤣
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frphank23d ago
Containerization improves this a bit although it's still uncommon on the desktop. The use case is a bit different on the desktop to begin though. You wrote about it yourself the other day. Users are more careful about which apps they install on the destop. Mobile apps are more like web apps on the desktop which are properly sandboxed in the browser.
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Hasn23d ago
Snap does this out of the box.
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Jim Smij23d ago
sounds like ultimate sandboxing.
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Jim Smij23d ago
...maybe not "ultimate"
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notmandatory23d ago
Looks like Apple does enforce signing and sandboxing for app store apps and should be able to do the same for side loaded apps: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/app-sa…
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Ava23d ago
I hear you, but it’s not like installing “an entire OS per app.” Qubes runs on a single Xen hypervisor and uses shared templates—AppVMs borrow their root filesystem from them—so you’re not installing 20 separate full OSs. You can use minimal templates and dedicate a lightweight AppVM to a single app if you want. It’s about isolated trust domains, not full installs everywhere. :)
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Abstract Equilibrium23d ago
AppVMs don't share resources other than the filesystem on disk. You're not installing 20 chromes, but you are **running** 20 chromes. (Still, Qubes is gold standard for linux sandboxing IMO)
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notmandatory23d ago
Flatpak looks like something similar for linux: https://flatpak.org/
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Vitor Pamplona23d ago
last time I checked Flatpacks have access to the user's home folder by default and save everything there too. I know they made stricter permissions but the defaults are still quite wide.
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CitizenPleb23d ago
💯
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CitizenPleb23d ago
Isn’t this just another way of saying (in general) “been doing mobile OS development for so that desktop OSs seem extremely insecure by comparison.”
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Vitor Pamplona23d ago
MacOS has app sandboxing. It's just linux and windows (and freebsd) that suck at it.
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Alan23d ago
You mean closed source MacOS?
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CCondor22d ago
Insecure in the wrong hands. Desktop is freedom. Android is the light version of OS. Touch nothing. Modify nothing. Secret folders untouchable
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mar23d ago
Android sucks, you're just trying to scare me into going back to using windows
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Stirling Forge23d ago
Love android. When Valve gets Proton/Vex layer fleshed out, we might get all the benefits of other OSes in a full Android desktop OS
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Vitor Pamplona23d ago
Apple probably does. But I deal with them in a different way that I deal with a random dev out there.
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Alan23d ago
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The_Crin23d ago
what surprised me is that they revealed that even the most secure VPNs have defects in Linux. 📝 4e5d487d…
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Karadenizli23d ago
Linux is made by and for autists and enterprise. It's genuinely unusable for normal people.
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Hasn23d ago
It has many versions though. Ubuntu for example is usable by anyone.
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Karadenizli22d ago
It really isn't. I haven't seen a single distro that doesn't ultimately make you use the command line to do something that you'd find in a menu on windows. Ubuntu might be better but it's still far from normie usable.
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Fenix23d ago
I need to come back to android soon
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Fenix23d ago
I need to come back to android soon
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Vitor Pamplona23d ago
That's why we use Graphene. But yes, manufacturers make everything worse.
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CitizenPleb23d ago
💯
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Vitor Pamplona23d ago
Does Snap have permission requests to access the web (sockets)?
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Hasn23d ago
Yes, snap allows access to internet, e.g. some browser apps are offered within snap strict sandbox.
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Vitor Pamplona22d ago
Yes, but does it block the web by default and only open the permission when the app requests it and the user approves?
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Vitor Pamplona23d ago
Even if people are more careful, it is still crazy that the default behavior is to access the entire filesystem and access and modify everything in the user's folder.
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frphank23d ago
It's a bit weird yes we didn't think of it as weird before mobile apps.
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Vitor Pamplona23d ago
Nah, SELinux, the thing that isolates Android apps, was developed by the NSA since 87 and merged into the kernel in 2003, way before any notion of mobile apps existed. Basically 40 years of work for the defaults to still not use it.
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Alan23d ago
Yes but can I run crisis on it?
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Mynymbox - Privacy friendly hosting solutions23d ago
There are different ways to create your QubesOS stack. If you run standalone templates you have really fully separated systems. The normal way is to build an templates which have your apps installed and you can share those apps to different AppVMs. The goal here is to separate user profile and data from other ApoVMs for security and privacy reasons. Each AppVM can have another network or is offline.
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CitizenPleb22d ago
What's interesting about totalitarian surviellance states is that the streets are extremely safe and secure.
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Alan22d ago
Safe for whom, and to each their own. I guess they like you. How fortunate
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Alan22d ago
I've worked on macos and iOS. It is a tyrannical system full of compliance obligations. Can't sideload apps. You call that safe? I had to build monero from source to get it to run. I hope you aren't serious.
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CitizenPleb22d ago
Sideload sarcasm indicator
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CCondor22d ago
I'd people cannot use Linux mint they should not have a computer
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Hasn22d ago
Interesting. That would be too strict wouldn't it. Android does not do that either.
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frphank23d ago
Hm right.
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Luxas22d ago
You can sideload apps
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Alan22d ago
On an iPhone?
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Luxas22d ago
Yup, and without jailbreak. Can use the AltStore.
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Alan22d ago
I see. Well that didn't exist when I was forced to use it for work. I was told I only had to build for android and then they made me buy a Mac and build for iphone. A part of me died inside and I quit shortly after.
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