ExploreTrendingAnalytics
Nostr Archives
ExploreTrendingAnalytics
Settebello58d ago
With #bitcoin being incorporated into tradefi and treasury, and acting like digital gold, almost backing stablecoins, why are people still bullish on accessing sovereignty stacking sats? It’s traceable and starting to be centralized. Why not jumping to #monero? #asknostr
💬 8 replies

Replies (8)

Papa Figos58d ago
it depends on how you define sovereign. the reasons you listed against bitcoin actually work in your favor from the point of view of wealth accumulation. if you're very poor, but can have transactional privacy, are you truly sovereign? conversely, if you're filthy rich but have zero privacy and operate under a system that trends towards totalitarian control because it's transparent, are you truly sovereign? you need both, I would argue. ideally that would be one asset, but right now (albeit less clear over the last year, monero has actually completely destroyed bitcoin in terms of capital appreciation) it isn't. so why not ride both waves and get the best of both worlds?
0000 sats
Settebello58d ago
You have valid points. I would think that one should hold #bitcoin in ETF. If you wanna win the game, stack IOU sats (ETF) in a tax sheltered brokerage account and get gains without tax implications. One should then hold #monero incognito on chain. But what I meant was that most of my feed is the same vibe of influencer claiming sovereignty backing sats. They are now irrelevant in 2026. Bitcoin is no more cypherpunk magic internet money. Between Saylor and Black Rock, a big chunk of Bitcoin is centralized and they control the narrative. I feel that Monero is what Bitcoin was 10 years ago.
000
Settebello58d ago
The ETF is simply to get the exposure and gain without paying taxes (depending of the country). Soon; the surveillance will be so bad that people won’t want to p2p with Bitcoin. Privacy is key.
0000 sats
Settebello58d ago
Not really, conjoin is a second step, an afterthought
0000 sats
Papa Figos58d ago
coinjoins don't help with privacy at all. that's why they're trivial to detect and why they get your accounts blocked if you receive coinjoined sats. they only serve to reset the pseudonymity. but they can't erase the history of your coins, they just give them a new history: "this user went out of his way to try and erase the history", which is what gets you blocked. bitcoin onchain is never private and only weakly pseudonymous.
0000 sats
Papa Figos58d ago
there are external factors that might greatly reduce the effectiveness of the coinjoin rounds - you have to realize it's all being done in the clear, likely using public electrum servers, bitcoin nodes don't have dandellion, etc, timing patterns, spending patterns, etc. but I wasn't alluding to that; let's say you're a super guru and you can resson about all the pitfalls and are conscious about timinf attacks etc, so you do all that perfectly. then yes, the link is probably broken, but what I meant is that now you don't have fresh virgin satoshis. you have coinjoined satoshis. anyone (and to the point, anything, it will be an autonomous and automatic system that does you in) can look at the sats you sent them and easily conclude they came from a coinjoin, or an address 1 or 2 hops away from a coinjoin. and that's what I meant: you're never private on bitcoin mainnet, because that info is stamped eternally and transparently on the blockchain. you do manage (in the best case scenario) to break the link between old sats and new sats, but as I said, you didn't erase their history. the history of your old sats now becomes "went into a coinjoin" (even this can and has gotten people's accounts banned, and they didn't even use coinjoined sats with the service that blocked them, but they mixed sats between sats sent and sats coinjoined, and they got a retroactive ban - this is the issue with the lack of privacy). the history of your new sats becomes "came from a coinjoin". the pseudonymous link between the old sats and new sats is theoretically broken, but you're always just a tiny mistske away from unraveling it all again due to the transparency. and in terms of privacy, you had none, and you ended up with none. privacy is the selective revealing of information, and all your coinjoins are onchain, you cannot hide that. and because you can't, it comes to bite you in the ass sooner or later.
0
Saberhagen The Nameless57d ago
Lightning leaks payment amounts to every node on a route and has no receiver privacy Both have their flaws
0000 sats
0 sats
Papa Figos58d ago
bitcoin never really was cypherpunk money. it's right there since the beginning, words to the tune of "if it's not private and anonymous, don't trust it, this is not the digital cash we (cypherpunks) envision". don't get me wrong, it was a great invention and it changed the game. but it didn't go far enough - which is why the legacy system eventually warmed up to it; the lack of privacy makes it controllable. but even without the privacy, at least we have something which can't be inflated away. it's a win in my book, but at considerable cost: financial surveillance became even more normalized because of the bitcoins and solanas and ethereums and dogecoins of this world. now, more and more people realize the situation is not tenable, and that we need privacy onchain (.. yeah, no shit).
0000 sats
0
0
0 sats